Firm Title: Wavlake
Founders: Sam Means and Michael Rhee
Date Based: 2022
Location of Headquarters: Chicago,IL; New York, NY and Phoenix, AZ
Quantity of Bitcoin Held in Treasury: N/A
Variety of Workers: 3
Web site: https://wavlake.com/
Public or Non-public? Non-public
Sam Means is bringing the DIY spirit of punk rock to Bitcoin.
Means, co-founder of Wavlake, a music streaming platform that employs each Bitcoin’s Lightning Community and Nostr, has been innovating within the music business because the early 2000s. From selling native exhibits to serving to handle his personal band because it toured the world to working a serious artist merchandise enterprise, Means has put within the work and discovered greater than a handful of classes alongside the way in which.
Now, he’s taken these classes and mixed them with what he’s discovered from his ten years of expertise within the Bitcoin area to assist create Wavlake, a music streaming platform that cuts out the intermediary, permitting followers to stream sats to on to their favourite musicians. Wavlake is a counter to Spotify, well-known for hardly paying most of the artists featured on its platform.
In my interview with Means, we talk about his journey within the music business, how he discovered and discovered about Bitcoin, the method of making Wavlake and the way he balances his time between Wavlake and his different enterprise endeavors.
A transcript of our dialog, edited for size and readability, follows beneath.
Frank Corva: You’re the co-founder of Wavlake, the founding father of the Lightning Retailer, and I simply discovered you additionally personal a band merch firm. Is that this appropriate?
Sam Means: Yeah. So, I ought to most likely cease calling it my primary enterprise, however my oldest enterprise is Hi there Merch. We do e-commerce, display printing for tour achievement, direct-to-customer achievement. It is like a one-stop store for merch should you’re a band.
Corva: I’d like to listen to the way you steadiness all of that, however let’s begin with how you bought concerned with music.
Means: I’ve achieved kind of every part. [It started] with punk bands. A few of these bands had been enjoying in Mesa, Arizona, and I used to be from the suburbs. I bought a automotive, piled all my associates in it and we began going to $5 punk exhibits in basements. That modified every part for me.
I began working at a venue after which began a promotion firm with a pair associates. The entire time I used to be in bands. I used to be in three bands with this dude — we simply stored beginning bands till one in every of them was profitable. We bought signed to a serious label, bought dropped, after which determined to do every part ourselves.
We began our personal label, bought distribution and labored with a extremely cool administration firm. We used all of the DIY stuff that we discovered at “punk faculty.” We constructed up a extremely good following. We had been touring consistently.
All via that, I actually solidified all of the music enterprise stuff. I used to be all the time the accountable dude within the band that was coping with merch and getting paid.
Lengthy story quick, I wore plenty of hats within the enterprise and ultimately began a merch firm. We had a good friend who discovered the way to display print. We arrange an e-commerce retailer in 2005, which was very tough to do. Shopify did not exist then.
Quick-forward to 2014, I might been listening to about Bitcoin from a good friend of mine. He is nonetheless round. Shout out to Mike Jarmuz.
Corva: Mike Jarmuz from Lightning Ventures?
Means: Yeah. He is a good friend of mine from center faculty and was a part of that entire story I simply advised. He began the label that put out my first band’s first document.
He additionally advised me about Bitcoin. He’d moved to New York, began a bar and was one of many first locations in New York to have a Bitcoin ATM.
By this level, I used to be utilizing Shopify for Hi there Merch, and I noticed that you might settle for Bitcoin with Shopify. I used to be like, “Alright, effectively, I am nonetheless form of sketched out by this, but when some folks wish to give it to me in alternate for band merch, I suppose that is okay.”
In 2017, I heard concerning the Lightning Community. I arrange a few nodes — did not know what to do with them — and simply turned them on. I used to be identical to, “I am serving to” [laughter].
A few years later, I heard Paul from Sphinx on Marty Bent’s podcast. I began wanting into it and noticed that you might add music to it. I used to be like, “What’s stopping me from making a Sphinx room and simply calling it just like the Lightning Music Room or one thing?”
So, I did that and uploaded all my music to. I took an RSS feed, put it into the podcast index and was like, “Hey everyone, look, you may stream music over Lightning.”
Corva: Wow.
Means: Then, I began this factor known as the Lightning Retailer. It was simply an experiment. I mentioned, “I’ll simply put out a bunch of bootleg music shirts, like West coast punk mashups on T-shirts with refined Bitcoin issues and discover all of the tremendous large music nerds in Bitcoin if there are any.”
“In the event that they know who the Descendants and Black Flag are they usually’re into Bitcoin, there may be an opportunity they may a minimum of like — trigger I am not a technical particular person — stroll me via what must technically occur in an effort to make this really occur as a substitute of simply fumbling.”
Corva: That appears like a enjoyable method to go fishing for assist.
Means: It was completely fishing. Individuals had been actually like, “What is that this? What are these shirts? We will not even purchase them as a result of you haven’t any liquidity in your node.” I had folks from Lightning Labs DMing me being like, “Hey, dude, like these items seems tremendous cool, however nobody should buy it as a result of you haven’t any liquidity.” I used to be like, “What’s that?” It was actually enjoyable. I did that within the very starting of ‘21.
Then, I began going to extra conferences and connecting folks with folks that had been constructing issues adjoining to what I used to be attempting to see occur.
After which this dude Michael Rhee from Chicago constructed this factor known as Wavlake. It wasn’t precisely what I hoped to see, however it was one thing. It was like, “Okay, this man made a factor the place you may join it to your node and you may add music and receives a commission with out having to add it via Anchor or one thing. It [wasn’t live] but, although.
So, I helped him check it earlier than he launched it. I used to be additionally serving to with Lightning Ventures at that time. I bought Michael on a name with [the team at Lightning Ventures] to see how we might assist him.
It was simply too technical, although. It was a cool thought, however it simply wasn’t precisely catching on for various causes. After that, I kind of misplaced contact a little bit bit.
Then, I ran into him at a Bitcoin convention in 2022. He was like, “Hey, I am gonna should get a job. Solely 27 folks have signed up for [Wavlake].”
I used to be like, “Okay, do not cease as a result of such as you’re on the suitable path. Any individual wants to do that.” Then, I had this concept. I known as him and mentioned, “I believe it is advisable change the whole factor. Would you wish to possibly simply begin over and launch a [new] product?
Corva: When was this?
Means: October of ‘22. We reorganized the entire enterprise and began over. In January of ‘23, we relaunched with a very totally different product and model.
By that summer season, we had met Ainsley Costello. She grew to become the primary Wavlake celebrity. She’s bought a brand new music out right now known as “Individuals Pleaser,” and folks ought to test it out.
Then, Nostr got here alongside virtually instantly after we launched. We’d had this long-term imaginative and prescient of how we might make this a social factor down the highway, however there aren’t plenty of social layers on RSS. Nostr was primarily only a second method to distribute these recordsdata. We had been like, “Hey, we are able to publish on RSS after which publish to relays.”
Corva: Is Wavlake a Nostr consumer?
Means: One among our merchandise for artists is known as Wavlake Studio. That is the place you add your music. Whenever you add your music, it distributes to RSS.
We routinely push that to the podcast index and any consumer that is studying that index and has a monetization functionality could have the flexibility to drag that music into their library. It’s tagged music.
Something pulling within the music tag goes to see that library after which we concurrently push it. We created a Wavlake relay that we push it out to.
So, each music will get printed as a Nostr notice, however pushes off of RSS. It simply occurs on a web site and will get pushed to those channels. So, simply consider them as distribution channels.
After we began critically eager about Nostr, we determined, “Nicely, there’s a few issues right here we are able to do. One, we are able to permit folks to log in with Nostr on Wavlake. So, should you simply wish to be a listener and you do not wish to create an account, you may simply log in along with your Nostr account and work together.”
Then, we began pondering, “Okay, effectively, if we’re going to make the most of Nostr for lots of social components, most of these are going to occur in a cellular app. So, we [built] a factor known as Wavman, which was our Nostr participant proof of idea.
Our cellular app for iOS and Android continues to be in beta. That’s an absolute Nostr consumer. Whenever you join, you are given a non-public key and a public key, or you may simply log in and work together.
Corva: It sounds prefer it was a fairly natural course of.
Means: Wavlake began as a conceptual factor to see if music might work on Lightning. I needed to see it occur as a result of the potential is so robust for this factor to utterly change the infrastructure that we exist in right now as musicians.
In my expertise, it’s a must to begin someplace. If you wish to be in a band, you may’t simply be like, “It is enjoyable — we performed three exhibits after which broke up after which I bought a job.” You need to simply maintain pushing via.
I assumed it was a good suggestion. It simply wanted some work. We are going to simply maintain doing it till it really works. Or a minimum of till anyone else with much more cash comes alongside and takes the concept and makes it work.
On the very least, we could be like a spark for a much bigger thought. Possibly TIDAL comes alongside and allows this.
My final objective is simply to see this alteration the music business. I do not care who does it. If we play a small half in that, that is unbelievable.
Corva: For example you proceed to iterate and Bitcoin turns into extra normalized. How lengthy would it not take for Wavlake to exchange one thing like Spotify?
Means: We now have good Bitcoin service suppliers. We now have wallets. We now have all the basic stuff in place and dealing.
We now have the cash that is so robust and being talked about within the mainstream media each single day. There is a ticker for it on TV.
It is time to usher in the mainstream. It is time to usher in the normies. Let’s get them right here. And we’re not going to do this with boring…
Corva: Lectures in Austrian economics?
Means: Yeah, and like, and like steak dinners and stuff. We’ll carry them in with music and leisure and social media.
Bitcoin is for everybody, and we have to construct the stuff for everybody to make use of it. I believe that now we have an excellent likelihood at serving to quite a bit as a result of proper now we’re one of many primary methods for music to waltz into each Bitcoin and Nostr.
Corva: Completely. However whilst you’re attempting to do that, how do you steadiness your time between Wavlake, Lightning Retailer and Hi there Merch?
Means: With Lightning Retailer, I’ve a achievement heart, however I nonetheless pack all my very own Lightning Retailer orders. I nonetheless wish to put free stickers [in the shipments]. It’s only a factor I do for enjoyable. Even when it will get form of loopy, like when Jack wears the Satoshi shirt on the Tremendous Bowl subsequent to Beyoncé and Jay-Z and issues get busy, it stresses me out, however I nonetheless will pack each single a type of orders.
With the merch stuff, I’ve a extremely good crew in Arizona that helps maintain that factor going. It does not require a ton of day-to-day work.
And we’re nonetheless so small with Wavlake.
It is robust to steadiness stuff, however I’ve all the time had plenty of issues happening. I operate higher when I’ve extra issues taking place. I am going to solely work with issues that I believe can finally work collectively.
So, these are plenty of various things, however they’re all in the identical world. It is like, I make music, I promote merch. I promote merch for bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin particular person. I’ve a music firm that is in Bitcoin and in addition has merch. All this stuff join.
Corva: How a lot do a few of the greater artists on Wavlake make?
Means: The most effective metric right here is that almost all artists who’re lively on Wavlake are averaging about 12 cents a zap.
It isn’t concerning the complete quantity that they’ve made. Ainsley Costello has been on plenty of podcasts saying she made $1,500 in her first couple of months, and he or she had solely made possibly $600 in her entire lifetime as a musician. She’s 19 or 20 now and has been doing this since she was a child and has solely seen $600 or $700.
It is extra about hope. Individuals who actually get it are getting it as a result of plenty of these different issues like these shitcoins and NFTs which can be about getting cash actually quick — everybody’s sick of that. Artists are in search of sustainability.
Simply took Man Like Kweks. He is been very vocal about how he is like paying his utility payments with what he’s making on Wavlake.
We additionally simply did an interview with this actually nice poet OKIN who’s in a gaggle known as…
Corva: Black Vulcanite?
Means: Yeah, Black Vulcanite. He made [the equivalent of] 500 Namibian {dollars} [from boosts and zaps on Wavlake] final month. That is about $80 US {dollars}.
So, yeah, there’s hope. All of this stuff are on the market that really have an opportunity to assist folks in a sustainable approach. It may carry bands nearer to their followers, which I do know, based mostly on my expertise, is a very powerful factor.
Corva: You will be working with Bitcoin Journal on a vinyl launch. Are you able to inform me a little bit bit about this?
Means: Yeah, we did a extremely cool contest the place current Wavlake artists or new artists might simply add music to Wavlake and the 21 songs that earned essentially the most sats would go to the subsequent stage. 11 artists out of these artists who made these 21 songs ended up on the document.
Man Like Kweks, Ainsley Costello and Joe Martin will likely be on there. It may be out there on the Bitcoin convention. We’re additionally doing a live performance there on July 25, business evening, with Ainsley Costello, Joe Martin and JUSTLOUD, who’s been burned by the business and is hopeful with what’s taking place on this [Wavlake] world.
Corva: Superior. That appears like plenty of enjoyable.
Means: It has been cool to seek out the Bitcoiners, and we’re glad for all of the help on this group. We’re simply going to maintain doing our factor.