Travis Barker on Surviving a Plane Crash, Miscarriage and Parenting Famous Kids

Once in a while I’ll wear a flannel or something if I feel like I want to be presentable. I’m coming to “New York Times Podcast.” I don’t want to —

You don’t got to dress up.

I don’t want to look like a bum.

That’s all right. Honestly, we’re —

But I’m also like —

Some people could go more bummy, and then some people could go nicer. It depends on —

I think I’m right in the middle.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

This is great.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Welcome to the “New York Times Podcast,” your fix your face of weekly culture chat. I’m Jon Caramanica, and I’m the critic.

I’m Joe Coscarelli, and I’m the reporter.

And I’m Travis Barker, and I’m on “Popcast.”

Yes, Mr. Baren Von Tito himself in the building.

Yeah.

Travis Barker needs no introduction. He is the drummer of our lifetime, I think.

I would agree.

Travis Barker is here today to talk with us about his entire career, from the Aquabats and Blink 182 through being the most in-demand drummer in rap music and beyond. Travis also has a new documentary coming to Hulu August 13 called “Louder Than Fear,” which traces his life from birth till today. It was shot over the span of 10 years, beginning in 2017, and focuses intensely on the harrowing plane crash that he survived and many others did not. Thanks for being with us.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

I really appreciate it. I just wanted to start by naming a couple artists. And, Jon, you can tell me what they all have in common. Dwight Yoakam, Paul Wall, Young Dro, Avril Lavigne, Suicide Boys, Post Malone, and Animal from The Muppets.

Besides all appearing on various “best end of year” lists that I’ve put out over the time, they’re all Travis Barker collaborators.

Whoa, very cool.

They’re Travis Barker collaborators. And I will say, going back to the 2000s, seeing your name pop up with someone unexpected had this sort of dual effect on me. On the one hand, there’s this sort of spark of joy. Like, hey, something that hasn’t happened before is going to happen here. But it also, I thought, said a lot about the people who invited you into their spaces and said that they were open-minded by their willingness to have you come in the room and maybe destabilize what they ordinarily did. Tell me about the conversations when you would go into a room with a well-known rapper who maybe hadn’t worked with someone like you before. What were they asking of you, and what were you offering to them?

I mean, it’s hard to say why they picked me. I think it’s the same thing that kind of sparks a relationship, or when you first talk to someone or meet someone. I was seeing what they were doing in their genre. And I really dug it. And I think vice versa for them. Wayne would be a good example, who would come to me and say, yo, I got tattooed because of you. You know?

He said that to you, Lil Wayne?

Yeah, I dressed like this because of you. I was inspired by you. And then I’m like, wait, I’m inspired by you.

Yeah, sure.

I remember I was with Blink around the “Dude Ranch” era. And we were in Vegas playing something together. And I saw the Hot Boys. They were playing right after us, or before. I don’t know the order. But I just see Wayne and Juvy and everyone just getting ready to go on stage. And I wasn’t really interested in watching whatever rock band was playing after us or before us. I was like, Hot Boys are about to go on. This is incredible.

I never got to see the Hot Boys. I’m jealous.

I feel like you’re looking at people that are in maybe another genre than you. And you’re inspired by them. And that usually sparked a collaboration of some sort.

I was struck. In the documentary, something I didn’t know was that your first real hip hop collaboration, or with a rapper, was with Bun B on the “Trill” album. Bun B, an old friend of mine. Tell me about Bun and Pimp reaching out to you to do that work.

Yeah, that was the first rap beat I ever made, right? There was other collaborations before that. It was so random. I was on tour and Puff had reached out and was like, we want you on this song with G. Dep and just want you to come be in the video. This is crazy. Like, why is Puff calling me? Whatever. This is so random.

I mean, you’re in the “Bad Boy For Life” video, which It maybe isn’t as cool today as it was at the time, but —

Yeah, of course. ^P. DIDDY, “BAD BOYS FOR

We still here

You’re rocking with the best

Don’t worry if I write rhymes

I write checks

But we’re not talking about that. We’re just talking about my first — yeah, hip hop reaching out to me. It was like him. It was like Method Man reached out to me to do something, like some strip club documentary. He was doing just the most random things. But I think around the time of the first “Transplants” album, Skinhead Rob hit me. And he’s like, yo Bun needs a beat for his solo project.

And I was like, man, I play the drums, Rob. I don’t really make beats. He’s like, you do now, motherfucker. Whatever. And now I’m like, yeah, when Bun B asks you for a beat, and he needs another song for his album, I’m like, of course. I’ll do whatever. If you listen to that song, I wasn’t programming. I didn’t have an MPC. I didn’t have a SP-1200. It’s all live. It’s all live percussion, using percussion that sounds like hand claps, a lot of shakers, a lot of cabasa.

I’m interested in this crossover between punk and rap because that’s where I come from. I grew up in Florida, in the South. These things were in dialogue with each other. You growing up in the skate and stoner culture of San Bernardino County, California, talk to me about how hip hop and punk were interplaying at that time before it was happening in the mainstream.

Well, skateboarding taught me everything. Skate videos had punk rock music, thrash music, rap music, everything. If you watched a H Street video, you were educated on cool.

[H.STREET, “SHACKLE ME NOT”]

Right.

You know, whether it was like Operation Ivy song, or — you were kind of learning about music. It was like music discovery. Skateboarding also just taught everyone how to dress and everything. Just like, it was my compass to everything I grew up loving that I still haven’t grown out of.

Totally. At the same time, you were in the marching band. you were playing jazz music. How did those two sides of yourself, the anti-establishment stuff, smoking weed and making skate videos, interplay with the rigor of having to learn drums, especially in a jazz or marching band context?

It was my only opportunity to play, really. It was cool to go out and skate every day and have a dream of being a pro skater. But I really would use my drumming to go and get a free pass to go skate the older kids in my neighborhood’s ramp. And sometimes they’d be like, you can’t come skate it until you play “Injustice For All” from front to back.

[METALLICA, “…AND JUSTICE FOR ALL”]

So I’d go home, and I’d learn “Injustice For All.” And I’d come back. So I would pay my dues so I could go skate the ramp. So stuff like that. And then —

It was your entryway into rooms.

Yeah, it was my entryway into going and doing something that I loved, which was skateboarding. Wasn’t nearly as good as skateboarding than I was drumming. One of my close friends around that same time had said, yo, you’re way better at drumming than you are skateboarding.

You’re just like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So that was cool. And I knew, OK, skateboarding was still a thing I could do, but I’m not going to be a pro skater.

No pressure.

I grew up in Fontana. Blue collar. Like, my dad built our house with his own two hands. Low-income family. We didn’t have a bunch. Jazz band and marching band was it. That was all that was really there for me, besides playing in my bedroom.

You’re supposed to do a summer camp before you can even try out for marching band. But I had a rough summer. Like, that’s the summer my mom passed away. So I just showed up the day of school and tried out without doing all the preparation that everyone else did. And I still made second or third chair marching band, which was cool.

Was it clear to everyone around you at the time that you were special on the drums? Did you feel them feeling it in real time?

Yeah, I feel like the kids I grew up playing drums with were always very supportive and would pick my brain. But I also did practice hours a day. My parents, no one was musically gifted or played any instruments. But my dad was in the military, fought in Vietnam, rode a Harley, and was a steel mill worker. So I bounced quarters off my bed. And if he was going to buy me a drum kit, I needed to practice hours a day before I’d go out and skate or ride bikes. So, yeah, because of that, I feel like I practiced a lot. And that’s why maybe I was a little ahead of whoever else I was in school with.

There’s a rigor in heavy metal drumming, and then there’s a rigor in jazz and marching band drumming. And a lot of times people don’t think of those as in conversation with each other. How did you think of those two styles talking to each other? Like, was it novel that you could bring the practice and the rigor of marching band and jazz into essentially a metal or a punk environment?

My dad and mom put me in some drum lessons, like some drum instruction, where I learned how to read. Spent a lot of time reading music, reading jazz charts. Both my mom and my dad had it set like, he’s going to be a drummer. He’s going to be a musician. And that was the stuff I had to practice because I needed to show up, whatever, every two weeks, and know what I was doing.

You couldn’t go to any of those instructors and say, hey, I want to learn Metallica. I want to learn Sepultura. I want to learn DRI. They’re going to be like, what? This isn’t even music. So that was the stuff that I would just challenge myself with. Or, thankfully, the kids in my neighborhood who would challenge me like, hey, you got to learn this.

And you’d learn it by ear. You just learned it by ear.

Yeah, I would just learn it, just sit there and play along with records. And I had a lot of that. Even my sisters, they’d play Michael Jackson records or Stacy Q, whatever they were listening to at the time. And I would learn —

“Two of Hearts“.

yeah — Beastie Boys. And I would learn all the drum parts on “Paul’s Boutique,” which were all programmed.

Right. that’s like, you’re not supposed to be able to drum that.

That’s a crazy record to learn how to play.

Yeah. Hey, ladies, with all the fast fills —

I mean. It was almost punk rock tempos. So I would learn all that stuff, too. It was just anything I kind of would zone in and try to learn it and get as good as I could.

One of the big through lines of the documentary is the physical toll that your life and career have put on your body, but specifically drumming and the physicality with which you drum, the aggression. I think anybody who’s been listening to music since the mid-90s can identify you on a track, because there’s a certain speed and ferocity to it, and a sound that you’ve honed of your own.

When you think about the battle wounds that you’ve had from music, just looking at your fingers, and you’re seeing the scars, the calluses, does that feel all worth it to you, what you’ve put your body through?

Yeah, I think scars are cool.

I never leave a show and my hands are bloody.

I was just going to say, how are your hands right now?

They’re good right now. I mean, I have a couple nails I’ve busted that are just, like, destroyed. But, no, I’ve never left a show where I’m a bloody mess or my hands are a mess and be like, ah, I wish I didn’t play the way I did, or I wish I would have went not as hard tonight. Have you guys ever watched an MMA fight or a boxing fight where someone gases out the first round because technique has been thrown out the window and they’re just going for broke?

Pure adrenaline.

So I’ve learned how to do that, but I don’t gas out. And that’s why I train. And that’s why I run. And that’s why I box. And that’s why I do the things I do, because I want to be able to play the way I want to play.

Yeah. When did you make the connection between the physicality of your drumming and running marathons and working out with the intensity that you do? Like, when did you start to see those things as linked.

When I got tired. [LAUGHS] The first time I got tired. Anytime you’re out there and you think of something you want to do and you physically can’t do it because your skill level is not there, or you don’t have the stamina or the endurance, that’s a problem. I never want to be there. To not gas out and not get tired, I need to run or box or sprints. And those were all things also I replaced bad habits with when I got sober.

Yeah. I wonder, how much were you taking care of your body when you were really in the rock star years? Obviously, there were parts of it that you were not taking care of — you were taking pills, or whatever it was, staying out late, drinking. But were you also cognizant then that your body was your instrument?

Yeah. I was so good. I was so functioning, where I would wake up, smoke a blunt, eat, smoke another blunt, go on a six-mile run, come back, smoke a couple cigarettes, smoke another blunt. I was completely functioning. I was doing everything I do now, but maybe not as much. That balance. I would find that balance. But that’s what helped like teeter totter into the right direction.

Because you already had the germs of it.

Yeah. It was already there.

Early on, you’re in Feeble. Then you joined the Aquabats. And these are bands that have a very specific home. Aquabats is living in the ska universe. And the drumming for each of those styles is not the same. Obviously, you have a versatile training coming from jazz and marching band. Did you feel hemmed in by those styles? Was there a sort of sense of, damn, I can’t do everything I know I can do if we’re living in this box musically, if we’re living under this umbrella in a genre? Were you mindful of that back in the ‘90s?

It’s so funny you say that. That’s a lesson every musician has to learn because so many times I’ll be in the studio with an artist or a band, and I find the musicians trying to put everything they know, or everything in their skill set, into one song.

Right. You’re overcompensating in a way.

It’s unnecessary. Yeah, yeah. And that’s why you start side projects or you get into other bands. But, yeah, around the time I was in Feeble, I was also playing in a soca band in Laguna Beach, where – there’s a steel drummer. And I was playing drum kit. So I was really doing anything —

Where are those records?

Yeah. — just to get experience. We didn’t make any records. But, yeah, so around that time in Feeble, I was playing really, really fast, punk rock drumming. [MUSIC PLAYING]

Aquabats was such a fun project because there was so many styles of music within. Christian was into Devo. But then he’s into mariachi music. He also grew up skating and listening to just rad hardcore and punk rock bands. So that was, stylistically, really fun because it wasn’t boxed in.

Blink was a little bit more in the box. But I also had so much freedom because Tom and Mark would just be playing chugs, or really something — or a riff that was very linear and simple. And Tom would go, do that crazy shit you do. And that means, play a weird Latin beat over this. And it suddenly becomes a signature drum part.

Yeah. Talk about a specific Blink song that has a drum part that most people don’t get. Anything come to mind? I always thought it was cool when Dave Grohl talks about how “Smells Like Teen Spirit” is just ripped off of disco. You know what I mean? Like, something like that. And only maybe drummers who are really tuned in know.

“Dysentery Gary,” I think it’s the pre-choruses. It goes into Latin world.

Yeah.

[BLINK 182, “DYSENTERY GARY”]

That’s why playing jazz and playing in marching band and having a drum instructor make me play Latin patterns, where I independently do something different with my left hand and whatever else — that’s where that — it just blessed me with different ways to approach punk rock or whatever music I was playing in my own unique fashion that became my signature.

The sort of magic trick of your career is that you’ve been the guy in the background, but you’ve been the main attraction. And that’s very rare for a drummer. There’s only a handful throughout history who I think people came to see the drummer, or the drummer is the most famous guy in the band. When did you first start to get a taste for the spotlight, even though you were behind the lights?

I mean, never.

Is that true?

No. I mean, that’s not why I was ever there. It’s kind of weird. I guess the best way to describe it, it was very humble beginnings with very reachable goals. Right? When I left Fontana, my only goal was to be able to have somewhere to sleep, food to eat, and I could play my drums. If I could somehow make a living just playing drums, or even before that, just having a job where I could play drums and do all the stuff I loved, I was really happy. I was sort of head down, work mode. And just always — I was so passionate about what I did.

Less of chasing fame and more of at the show, you had to know eyes were on you instead of — typically, they’re on the lead singer. When did you start to feel that even though the drummer, typically a background role, that the eyes were on you? And did you like that feeling?

I don’t know. I don’t think I thought like that. Or I don’t even think I acknowledged that. I was always the quietest one in the band with Blink.

Right. Those are loud, goofy guys, Mark and Tom.

A lot of the Times because a lot of the banter was really funny. And I love Mark and Tom. And it’s similar to the banter that I had growing up skateboarding with my friends or playing in bands. It was almost a skit in between songs. It’s absolutely a skit in between songs.

The live albums are comedy albums.

It’s just classic Blink, right? But I wasn’t ever going to do anything that didn’t feel authentic to me or was out of character for me. When I first joined Blink, it was like, these guys are going to have fun and go crazy. And I need to keep time. And I need to kick ass. And that’s it.

But you also join Blink, literally, just as things are about to go absolute wild. The question I was going to ask is coming at this subject from a different side, which is, if you think back to the early blink videos, you’re as much of a character in those videos as Mark and Tom.

[BLINK-182, “ALL THE SMALL THINGS”]

It’s not like, these are the guys who sing, and then you’re just in the back kind of being like, I’m going to keep time. Even going back to the Aquabats, dressing up in the costume and being part of that, did you think of that — once you’re out of the punk universe, were you just like, well, I guess if I’m going to be in a big band, I also have to be a person that people visually recognized as part of the deal?

I wasn’t ready for any of it.

Yeah. They were just like, do this. And you’re like, cool, I’ll do it.

In Aquabats, Feeble was playing a show with BHR. And Chad from the Aquabats was in BHR. Both Aquabats and Blink, very similar story. Chad says to me, hey, you should come play with my other band. I think we need a drummer. A week later, I’m playing with the Aquabats.

I had no idea they wore costumes. I thought the album cover was just the album cover. And Christian hands me this costume. And I was like, oh, you got to be kidding me. I got to wear this?

I like when the doc — you’re like, my friends from home are going to roast me.

Yeah, I was getting heckled so bad. But it was fun. I’m also, I think, good at adapting and just pivoting and doing whatever. And then in Blink might be the symptom of also being a three-piece, where there is so much attention in all three members. But honestly, same thing happened.

We’re on tour with Aquabats. Their drummer takes off about 45 minutes before the show. They were going to have to cancel the show. I learned the set in 45 minutes, went and played a show with them. It was so fun. And then about a few days later, after the tour, they said, we want you to be in our band. We just want to keep playing with you. We don’t want to go backwards from here.

But long story short, I think, yeah, I was ready to go and play drums in that band. And I could kill it. And I was confident. I knew all the parts. And I loved the songs.

Did I think I was capable of being in videos, dressing up?

The third comedian in the band.

Yeah, running around naked for “What’s My Age Again.” I had no idea any of that shit was going to happen.

You embraced it.

You pop up in “American Pie.” On “CSI,” you have a cameo. You were very early to be a musician on reality television. And I think this increasing comfort that you had with being in front of the camera leads us to how vulnerable and real and intense this documentary is. What was it like to start putting yourself out there without the drums?

If you mean like, “Meet the Barkers,” or something like that, it was actually pretty easy because Jesse Ignjatovic, who produced that show, and he did “Diary,” , he was like a close friend just from us always visiting MTV and doing stuff at MTV. And he had just said one time, it would be so cool to do something with your family. And I kind of realized it would just be like this.

Cameras are up, but I’m not acting different. There’s no script I got to follow. It was kind of scary because we felt so comfortable. Right?

Because it was that early reality TV.

It was so early. So you didn’t know to be self-conscious because it’s so early in the whole arc of reality television.

Yeah. And it was so true reality. When I tell you there was 20 cameras set up in our house that you wouldn’t even realize are there —

Like below-deck style now. That’s how they do it. Yeah.

It’s like a crew of people living with you that stay in a house outside. And I was high all the fucking time. Yeah. We would go to the shooting range. All of our cameramen would be shooting with us too, at the shooting range. It was just, everywhere we went, whatever we did, it didn’t feel like we were filming.

They were extended family by that point.

Yeah.

When did you decide to make this film, and why?

I mean, after my book, the conversations started.

Sure. And that’s 10 years old at this point.

I read a bunch of this over the last week. So many good stories in here. What I liked about this was it’s not just your words. It’s also oral history style. It’s bringing in perspectives from bandmates, family members, friends. It really thickens up the story. So it’s a good way to do a book like this.

When I did that book, it was shortly after my accident. And I was also sober for the first time in I don’t know how many years. 20 years, something. It was humiliating, but it was also so real to have everyone tell their side of the story. Yeah.

It’s one thing to put those things on the page, but it’s another to relive them through archival video and photographs, the very intense footage in this movie from your plane crash, from your 20-plus surgeries after, your recovery period, very intimate moments with your family. Did you sit down and go through all that stuff before it was assembled in the film and think about what you were comfortable revisiting and including?

I mean, both the book and the film are therapeutic, right? The book, the wounds were so fresh. That was really hard. That was really difficult to write and sit with my co-writer on that.

The documentary, no, because I didn’t make the documentary or edit the documentary or anything like that. I would just see things that they would show me. And interesting fact about the documentary is it was maybe like 2017, or something around that time, the documentary was supposed to be done.

Really?

Right? Yeah.

It was like a rush job.

The documentary was done. It was the beginning of my life, my childhood, up until the time of the plane crash. And the directors and the producer of the film, their goal for the end of the film was, can you please go to an airport? Or can you please walk on a plane? And we end there.

And I was like, absolutely not. There’s no fucking way I’m going near a plane. At that time, I wouldn’t stay at hotels near airports. I didn’t go to an airport. I didn’t go to an airport for almost 20 years.

They weren’t even asking you to fly. They just wanted you to be near an airplane.

Yeah. They just wanted to have me walk on a plane, maybe insinuating maybe one day I’ll fly again. And that’s the end of the doc.

Contemplatively or something. Yeah.

What’d you say?

Contemplatively.

Yeah. And I was like, nah, that’s not what I’m going to do. So it just sat there stagnant. I call my manager. I was like, just put this out one day when I’m gone, whatever. I don’t want to deal with it anymore. Tell the guys I’m sorry, but I can’t finish it.

If this is how they want to finish it.

If that’s the ending. Yeah. I could never release a documentary with this thing that had such power over me. You know? Knowing I didn’t get on a plane again, and it still has this just complete power over me, where I’ll never fly again. So then I started thinking about it after I flew, which took 20 years, right?

Oh, so you didn’t even begin to revisit the documentary until —

No, it was dead to me.

— you got on a plane.

Yeah, it was dead to me. And I just had this documentary. I remember I had shared it with I think Bobby 100 from The 100s. And he was like, dude, that documentary is so good. And it wasn’t even finished then. And I think that sparked something in me because I also trust Bobby’s opinion. And he’s just great. And next thin you know, I fall in love, get into this relationship, start just doing a series of just self-work, doing breathwork, doing all this stuff. And I, very long story short, fly again.

Yeah. I mean, you’re alluding to this. The other thing that happened in between 2017 and 2026 is you married into the reality TV family. You had already done “Meet the Barkers,” and you end up with Kourtney Kardashian. You’re on “The Kardashians” last couple of seasons learning, I assume, to share more about your personal life in that format. Talk a little bit about how that process was, of opening up, and how it prepared you for this film of yours to really tell the end of that story, the second half of the movie.

I kind of don’t even realize I’m on the show, to be honest. I don’t watch —

We have news for you.

Yeah. I don’t watch the show. And I think the best way for me to deal with stuff like that, or to be a part of things like that, is to not really acknowledge that I’m being filmed or anything different’s happening. But I never even approve episodes or watch them.

Really? You don’t do any approvals?

No I’m not on the show as a main character, where I have interviews and I do whatever. I’m usually just — I’m an accessory.

You’re usually working out, honestly.

Really? Yeah.

You’re just taking care of the kids or exercising.

But the engagement is on the show.

Also, our wedding. Our wedding was filmed on iPhones.

She put a bunch of footage together for our wedding, which was really cool. And I did watch that with her. Obviously, that was awesome. But the show, it wasn’t really a learning curve to opening up or anything. I think what helped me release the documentary or even tap back into the documentary was being able to overcome the big things that had power over me.

Although, you talk about being on “Kardashians,” your fertility journey with your wife is documented on the show, but not entirely. And then in this film, in “Louder Than Fear,” you and Kourtney share the very harrowing story of a miscarriage that she had before you had your son Rocky, who’s now about two. How did you guys decide that this was the right forum to share that part of your journey together?

I think when there’s things that can benefit people or help people relate to something, I think that’s always a green light, especially — she’s always trying to do something like that. So our journey of miscarriages and then IVF, and it’s failed, resulting in us having a baby naturally, I feel like that’s a story —

That so many people can relate to.

— a million people can relate to because it’s a journey I’ve never been on.

Sure. But it’s an interesting choice then to put it in your film instead of on her show, I thought. You guys got a little deeper with the miscarriage specifically.

Yeah. The way the documentary happens is through a series of interviews. I’ll say something. And then they’re like, oh, well, tell me more about that. And that’s how that came up.

So you must have mentioned it.

So no one knew about that.

Right. It was something you were going through. You mentioned it in one of your interviews. And then they dug a little deeper. And Kourtney agreed to share her side of it in the film.

I’m also curious about something that comes up in maybe a slightly more tangential way. I was really struck by how your children spoke about fear and trauma and anxiety related to flying. And when you finally said, me and Kourtney, we’re going to get on a plane, and we’re going to go on this trip, that your children, Landon and Alabama, were saying, please don’t, please don’t, that that had been somehow transferred to them from your years of really struggling with it.

LOUDER THAN FEAR”^: When came to tell us kids, we were really against it at first because all we had known is no. No flying. Don’t fly. Let’s not fly.

LOUDER THAN FEAR”^: He told us. He was like, yeah, I’m going to get on a plane. And we were like, fuck no, you’re not, because that’s all we knew growing up, was we’re never getting on a plane.

I wonder if you can talk about your conversations with them, talking them through your journey to hopefully get them comfortable with where you were at that time. Talk to me a little bit about that.

Yeah. Well, my kids were very, very protective of me and very scared, to the point where they were begging me not to go on the plane. So I had to show them to also break the cycle to where they would try it.

So they had never flown at that point.

Never.

And that was your choice.

Unfortunately, my kids were, I think, three and five, or somewhere around that age when my accident happened. And they never flew after that because I just — it’s sad, but they were basically brought up to think that’s how people die.

My journey getting there was — I remember I had this massage therapist that I would see while I was home. And I remember her telling me one day — she’s like, you got to do breathwork. And I’m like, what? What are you talking about? And she’s like, you have so much trauma. I can feel it in your body. Right?

And also, I don’t know. I didn’t know exactly how to navigate after my accident. Talked to a post-traumatic doctor, got sober, would run, would exercise, do all this stuff that I just felt was calling me. A fan that was really, really cool and very persistent would always reach out to me and be like, hey, do breathwork.

But the guy, he looked like me. He had tattoos on his head. His name is Lucas. He’s awesome.

Shout out to Lucas.

Yeah, Lucas is awesome.

Yeah, Lucas is doing the work.

And I was like, man, I feel so weird. I don’t know this person. I’m going to invite him in my home. I’m going to be very closed off. I’m going to try to control this situation a little bit. Dude, 10 minutes into it, I’m bawling my eyes out. I’m like a mess. And it’s like that the next five sessions.

But I also feel like I’m making progress. I just felt different. So ultimately, that led to me telling my wife, if you’re ever going to take me anywhere, don’t tell me about it. Just tell me the night before. So she did. I did breathwork the night before, ended up flying. Luckily, I had a great experience, right?

In parenting, I see your kids are very popular online.

You’ve had history in reality television and being a star yourself. How do you communicate with them about navigating that part of growing up? Because they’re growing up in a thing that you earned your way into. And then they’re growing up in it. They’re famous. The minute they turn on the phone, the minute they sign up for TikTok, they’re a well-known person.

It’s so hard. I mean, my son called me the other day. And he’s like, hey, they offered me to go on “The Voice.” And I was like, dude, you’re way too cool for that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I’m like, think of — what I always tell my kids and what I always tell myself — and I have to tell him because I’m like, also, son, you could think I’m being contradicting because you’ve seen me play drums on “American Idol” with Mary J. Blige or whatever. I’m like, I’m different. I’m a drummer, and I’m like — my flex is going from genre to genre, and this person and this person, and playing the Grammys with Lenny Kravitz and her. And then playing —

You’re like, I already did my cool — you got to earn some cred before you go on “The Voice.“.

I’m doing fun shit that’s just fun for me because I’m a drummer and I’m not on the forefront. It’d be different if I was singing with all these people. And I was like, you got to think about your idols. If your idol’s Kurt Cobain, would Kurt Cobain do “The Voice?” No. You know? And I know you’re in a rush to get to here, but take your time. It’s going to happen. I’m in the studio with them. I hear the songs that he’s creating. I’m like, there’s no rush. You know? Do things that are authentic to you.

Do you feel protective over how they present themselves on the internet? I mean, every now and then you see one of them get into some kind of scrap online. And I imagine as a parent, you’ve got to just be like, oh, no, how do I protect them from this? How do you navigate that part of the emergent young celebrity, especially in LA where it’s like everybody’s trying to make a name for themselves?

Yeah. Like Alabama, she’s in the mix, you know?

Yeah. I lead by example. I used to almost get in fights with paparazzis. You know what I mean? I was not proud of any of that stuff. I used to have a temper when it came to people following us, or just dumb stuff. Or if someone said something to me, I might be quick to react or be confrontational. But I’m like, that ain’t it, babe.

Like, all that, it’s just all noise. Don’t pay attention to any of it. Stay running in the direction you’re running in. Be happy. Try not to harm anybody or — just be good. Be a good person. But all I can do is — they’re adults. All my kids are adults. Like, Atiana is 27. Landon’s 22. Bama’s 20. I just try to love them and tell them, just stay in your own trajectory.

You ever come down hard on them? Do you ever have to pick up the phone and raise your voice?

I mean, yeah, of course.

Even though they’re adults.

Always respectfully, but yeah. Yeah, of course. You got to have —

Even the breathwork, sometimes you got to be Dad.

You got to have the hard conversations. No, I mean, I grew up — my dad was — he would whip my ass.

Yeah. That’s clear in the film, that you guys had a tough relationship, and that he was very hard on you. And there’s an extremely moving moment near the end. Spoiler, if you want to watch it yourself. But your dad is somebody who, as you said, was in the military.

He’s like, tattoos are for convicts. And you have a tattoo, Pal — nickname between you and your father. And then in the movie, he takes off his shirt, shows his sleeve. And I’m getting goosebumps thinking about it.

It’s a very powerful —

Then you see he’s got a matching one.

LOUDER THAN FEAR”^: One day I went, come here, I got something to show you.

And he said, Dad, that’s a sticker. I said, no, it’s not a sticker. I decided just to show him I support him and everything, that I’m going to go and I’m going to get that done.

Talk to me about learning that and just what that meant to you from your father.

Yeah, full circle. I mean, I think every parent’s worry is that your kids are going to grow up to be a fuckup, right? So my dad told me early on, you get a tattoo ever, I’m going to kick your ass. I’m going to kick you out of the house.

So I got tattoos. I started tattooing my legs. But I would wear my socks up high so he wouldn’t see. And then as I got older and I started — once I left home, it was a wrap. I think the last tattoo I got in the house was a memorial for my mom on my forearm. And he was really upset about it. But it was also so meaningful to me to get a tattoo for my mom.

And then years later, my dad called up one of my tattoo artists that I had grown up with because I got a tattoo that says “Pal” for him early on. And he went and got it. And then he got a famous tattoo.

Oh, another one.

Oh, he has —

He has the logo?

He has two tattoos. I’m like, pops —

He doesn’t show the other one.

— you’re crazy. Yeah. But, yeah, he’s just like the most supportive Dad I could ever ask for.

One more question about parenting. One of the interesting things about your marriage, your relationship with Kourtney, is you met much earlier as friends and neighbors. You were in Calabasas before. You were early on Calabasas before it went crazy.

We were there when there was — in Calabasas, in the neighborhood we lived in, there was one street. And I lived there with —

Wow, that’s unthinkable.

— my kids and my ex-wife.

Yeah. And so there’s some footage. I think it’s period footage, but of your kids and Kourtney’s kids before you guys are together, maybe having a dinner or some kind of play date or something. And I wonder, what have you learned about parenting from watching Kourtney and her kids? And what does she take from you in how you raise your kids? And I’m talking about even pre-marriage, pre-dating, just you guys as friends, watching each other navigate that stage of adulthood.

And then combining into what you guys refer to as the Brady Bunch.

But what do you learn from each other about parenting before you became co-parents?

Yeah.

From the beginning, once she had moved to the same neighborhood as me, we would see each other around. We would work out all the time. So naturally, our kids would hang out sometimes. So my kids were much older. So I remember, even to this day, she might say something about the older kids or even something to the effect where I have to remind her — I’m like, it doesn’t matter if they’re five or 11 or 13.

You’re not going to feel any different about them when they’re 22, 20, or whatever age. It’s always the same. You love them the same way. It’s not like they suddenly leave the house when they’re 18, and you stop caring about them. That’s never going to happen. I love my kids like the day they were born.

One of the last things I wanted to ask you about specifically from the doc — and for those who don’t know, I think 2008 you were coming back from a show on a private Learjet. And you were with five other people. Some of your closest friends in the world perished in the accident. DJ AM, another close friend of yours, died a short time later.

And in the climax of the film, as they’re going through this story and this footage, you’re drumming. And you’re essentially doing an interpretive drum solo set to the most horrible thing that’s ever happened in your life. How was that directed? How was that made?

Yeah. Yeah, it was a little offsetting. The producer of the film had said, hey, there’s this scene in the film where we’re going to really go to some of the footage of your plane crash. And I want you to do a drum solo that kind of mirrors that feeling.

So, yeah, showed up to this warehouse that’s lit, all these people in it. And there was fire everywhere. And I didn’t say much. Honestly, I just got behind the kit and started talking.

With your hands and your feet.

Yeah.

LOUDER THAN FEAR”]

And was that multiple takes? Is that just you —

It’s so raw It’s so cathartic and intense.

I think it’s like a two-piece. Yeah, I think I did two solos, which were just completely off the dome, just improv.

Yeah.

LOUDER THAN FEAR”]

That’s what came out.

And you end on your feet. When you were done, did you feel like you had released something?

Yeah. It was like the walk away. You know when you see an MMA fight, and you see someone — they know knocked him out, and they don’t even need to watch him fall. They just walk off. I just did a walk-off. I was like, I know that’s it. But, yeah, that was hard, harder than I communicated. But I just thought the best thing was to just put the energy through the drums.

Did you fly to get here?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of a bad experience. It’s funny.

I’m sorry.

So flying is —

But thank you.

No, no, no, I’m so stoked to be here. Flying is something that I do. But I think I’ve found ways that make it easier for me to fly. And one of them is I just want to be on an Airbus. Right? I always read all these horror stories about Boeings.

So I’m walking in the plane yesterday. And the flight crew was like, hey, do you want to say hi to the pilots? They wanted to say hi. So I’m like, yeah, of course. I bring Rocky up there, say hi to the pilots. Pilots are super cool. They asked if Rocky wants to sit in the chair or whatever.

And then he gives me this card that’s like the card for the plane you’re on. They’re like trading cards, right?

Yeah, I’ve read about this.

And it says Boeing 767. And I just about fucking die.

And just to be clear, you didn’t —

This is so stressful.

— you didn’t crash in a Boeing. You just see it in the news.

Yeah, I just see it in the news. And I try to stay away from private planes. They just feel like the Wild West to me. I feel so bad because the pilot’s probably like, what’s wrong with this guy? And I walk back to my seat. And I’m like, babe, this is a Boeing. We’re on a Boeing right now.

And I’m so stressed because I haven’t flown on one. And I think I have these protocols that make me feel a little safer to fly. And we have the most turbulent flight ever, where the whole time he’s just like, get in your seats, put your seatbelts on. And I’m just like —

So it’s still a process. It’s a journey every time.

Yeah. I do it. And I’ll always do it. I can still say I do have anxiety when it comes to flying. Sometimes I’m even — might take a call to my therapist, just being like, hey, I’m going to fly, and just walk me through it, if I haven’t flown in a long time.

I think the more I fly, as long as they’re good flights and nothing sketchy happens, I get better at it. But when there’s months and months without flying, it does make it a little hard.

And this one, a rough one, doesn’t help.

This one sucked.

I’m sorry. I’m getting on a plane tonight. So now I’m like, uh.

No, I’m sure everything was fine. My wife’s just chilling. Rocky’s also watching me. And he’s so cute and like, is it bumpy, Dad? And I’m like, oh, my God, It’s bumpy, son.

But two-year-olds can take the anxiety out of a lot of situations, right? They just pop the bubble.

Yeah. Yeah, it’s a blessing. Obviously, I associate it with something else.

Of course. Of course. Let’s hit a couple of questions on our lightning round.

Let’s go.

52 cards in the “Popcast” deck. Each one of them corresponds to a pre-written question. Some of them are light. Some of them are heavy.

Cool.

We’ll see where. the fate takes you today. What do you got? Ace of clubs.

Unbelievable. Everybody’s pulling really apt cards. It’s good. OK, this is interesting, especially as someone who has been doing what you do since you were a child. What are you good at besides what you do for a living?

I’m pretty good at running.

Yeah.

I mean, it seems like it.

Yeah, it seems like it.

It was like —

What’s your marathon time? What’s your mile time, your marathon time right now?

So I haven’t — I’m hitting a full marathon this year. I hit a half marathon on Saturday. And I did it in an hour and 38 minutes.

Crazy.

So 7-20 mile. Yeah.

That’s competitive, right, for —

Yeah, nothing to stuff at.

40-something-year-old man who’s not a professional runner.

I’m 50.

You’re 50?

Yeah, I’m 50. Yeah, I’m 50. But —

50 as well. Great age.

Yeah. It was something. Like when I found out we were having Landon, I just left. I literally laced up my shoes, and I ran to the freeway and back, which was like a six-mile —

You tell that story in the movie.

— total run. And it’s just something DIY. I don’t need anything. There’s no excuses. There’s no lying. There’s no faking it. I love running.

Oh, it’s funny to hear you frame it as something DIY.

That’s cool. Running is punk.

Yeah, it’s punk.

Well, it is. Yeah.

I’ve never heard it referred to that, but that’s very accurate. It’s totally right.

It is very punk. We all have shoes. We all have legs. We all can run. There’s no faking it. You know what I mean? There’s no easy way to do it. I love it.

That’s great.

Pull another card.

DIY.

Ace of Spades.

It’s a magical pull.

Bon Iver, Justin Vernon, behind you, pulled a full house. That’s the best hand we’ve ever had.

Yeah. So we’ll see how today goes. Maybe you’ll pull four aces. OK, Ace of Spades. What did your parents not teach you that you wish that they had taught you?

Maybe like money, like about finances and stuff. I tend to listen to a lot of podcasts about money and just whatever —

Personal finance type stuff?

Everything. Yeah. But we also didn’t have any. So yeah, it was like something I —

They couldn’t have prepared you for your life.

Yeah, it was something I had to learn. I remember my first chunk of money I made. Actually, from the Blink shows, my first three Blink shows, I went home and I bought a Cadillac.

Like right off rack, just cash?

Like a low rider?

Yeah. Well, a ‘66 Cadillac. And I remember my tour manager, Stuart. Rest in peace. He came to my house. He’s like, bro, you’re like hood rich. You have a bunch of old school cars, and you’re renting a house with your three homies. Sell your cars and buy a fucking house. And I did. I bought a house, and then I kind of started over.

Amazing. That’s great.

Did you get another ‘66 Cadillac?

Of course. Of course.

Great news. Great news. Great. [LAUGHS]

Hit another card.

Queens.

Queen of Spades.

Queen of Spades. OK, well, this is an apt question that we touched on. On a long flight, what do you do? Are you distracting yourself? Are you watching a movie?

Can’t believe you pulled a flying question.

It’s unbelievable you pulled this question. You practicing? What do you do?

Yeah. I mean, people will hate me If I’m practicing on the plane. So I don’t do that. Usually, I’ll try to watch something. I don’t watch TV at home. I’m usually at the studio really long hours. And I just come home to sleep.

Yeah, sure.

And then when I’m home, I have seven kids.

Got a lot to pay attention to, yeah.

So, yeah, my time is —

Accounted for.

Yeah. I love spending time with them. So no TV at home. So I’ll catch up on stuff.

Sure.

Hit two more and get yourself a hand, and then we’ll eat a snack.

King.

King of Hearts.

King of Hearts.

Where do your best ideas come to you?

They can come to me all sorts — sometimes right before I go to sleep, I’ll think of something. Sometimes the shower. Sometimes on a run. I’m finishing up the Alkaline Trio album right now.

Oh, nice.

And something will come to me when I’m on a run. And then I’ll just dart to the studio and hurry up and get the idea out. Yeah, they literally come to me when I’m doing anything but sitting in the studio. It’s the best.

Trying to think of something.

I also can’t listen to anything I work on in the studio. It needs to be displaced. I need to be doing something, driving, something like that.

All those things that you’re describing, there’s a mono focus when you’re doing — it clears out all the clutter, which probably then allows room for something to just pop in and have freedom. Yeah.

Totally.

So you got the documentary, the alkaline trio album. What else do you have coming up?

Starting a couple other projects, like producing projects, working on the next Blink album.

Nice.

Yeah.

This year, next year, what do you think for Blink?

We’re working on the Blink album this year.

Yeah, great.

Great.

All right, pull one more.

What do we got?

Seven of Spades.

Seven of Spades. Do you read your own DMs?

Yeah.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Do you go crazy in the extra mailboxes, the wild stuff?

The hidden messages?

Not really.

Just the main one.

Blue checks only, and Lucas.

Yeah, Lucas. I would have never found Lucas. I’m telling you guys, he’s amazing. And breathwork’s amazing. Yeah. No, I mean, there’s certain people I only communicate with.

Via DM.

Yeah.

If you collaborate with rappers, you have to read your DMs.

That’s the rule. Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

It just is what it is.

I also have a friend like Atiba that I’ve known for years, who’s like a photographer. He did all my Van stuff.

Sure, Atiba Jefferson.

Yeah, yeah. And we only communicate through DM. It’s so funny.

Even though you’ve known each other forever, yeah.

Yeah, even though I see him. And I don’t know why. But it’s just our way of communicating.

That’s funny.

Yeah, I have a Van — I have a shoe coming out too.

You’ve done other clothing things. Obviously, you had your brand for a long time. Doing a Vans, obviously, I imagine very special as someone who grew up in the punk scene.

Yeah, Vans is huge.

You’re rocking your Vans tonight.

Yeah, watching the Circle Jerks and Descendents and growing up skateboarding and riding BMX, to have signature shoes with Vans is like —

You’re a skate low, skate high, a half cab.

I did two old schools. And then I have an authentic coming out next year too.

Nice.

Yeah.

We’re going to have snack. I want to talk to you about clothes while we have a snack.

Every episode of “Popcast” ends with a snack test. You are a very healthy man. You eat vegan. You eat organic. You eat gluten-free.

We don’t, but —

We do not. But we’re going on this journey with you.

Awesome.

Producer Kate went out and got some special Travis Barker-approved snacks. You eyed these. You said every now and then you have a Sour Patch Kid?

Oh, I love Sour Patch Kids.

And they’re vegan.

Sometimes in the middle of the shows, I’ll just have a couple Sour Patch Kids. No, if you need sugar or if Mark and Tom are going on a long rant —

Right. You’re like, time to eat some candy.

[LAUGHS] I like the idea of them just yammering at the crowd. And you’re just popping Sour Patch Kids behind them.

So these are Sour Diamond tutti frutti Bubs. I never had a Bubs.

What even category of snack is this?

It’s a gummy. It’s a sour gummy.

It’s a gummy. It’s not like a crack — OK. All right.

It’s a gluten-free, vegan sour gummy. Oh, Swedish. We treasure our Swedish heritage, and we are passionate about making excellent mouthwatering candy. These look good. We’re going to taste one. We’re going to rank it out of 10. And then you’re going to be on your way.

Cool.

And while we’re doing that, style has always been — like, It’s very clear.

That’s good.

It tastes like surf wax or something.

You want to grab a couple —

Right?

You want to grab a couple more?

[LAUGHS]

Yeah, I’ll have another one.

They’re very sour.

They’re so good.

They’re really good.

Is this a Pendleton we’re wearing today, or is this —

Oh, it’s just a flannel. Yeah.

Tell me a little bit about arriving at your look because you have a very signature look. And also, how hard is it to get reasonably priced band t-shirts anymore now that the market is an absolute nightmare?

Oh, it’s insane.

These are delicious.

Yeah, these are so good.

Oh, my God.

I could crush that bag.

They’re also a little mallow-y. There’s a little marshmallow.

Yeah, it’s really good.

Like, it’s not a gummy in the heavy sense. Oh, my God.

People are sleeping on these. I’ve never even heard of them.

Bubs about to go way up after this.

Buy stock. Have some more.

Not spon.

They’re so good.

This is not a sponsor. We just discovered some great gummies.

But tell me about developing your personal style, which i know seems like a silly thing to talk about. But also, the band t-shirt thing is real. I mean, you’re a guy. Whether it’s on your old TV show or just seeing pictures of you, you wear good [MUTED].

Well, thank you.

But it’s increasingly hard to find. It’s incredibly expensive now.

Now it’s insane. AM and I loved vintage from the jump. We’d always buy vintage and trade stuff with each other. And honestly, they were just not boxy and hard t-shirts. They just felt good, especially for playing drums and always moving. Yeah, it felt good. And it’s the same reason I collect old school cars or old school BMX bikes or old school skateboards. It brings back my childhood, things that I love that feel like home for me. And then my personal style, grew up in Dickies and Vans.

Were you wearing some advanced post-Dickies here, with the seam going in a wild direction?

Yeah, there’s some undercover ones.

I was guessing it was undercover. Yeah.

But, yeah, not much. I mean, I grew up wearing Docks and monkey boots as a kid skateboarding and stuff. But I try to stay away from leather because I am vegan. And, yeah, once in a while I’ll wear a flannel or something if I feel like I want to be presentable. I’m coming to “New York Times Popcast.” I don’t want to look —

You don’t got to dress up.

I don’t want to look like a bum, you know?

Honestly, we’re

Some people could go more bummy. And then some people could go nicer. It depends on —

I think I’m right in the middle.

This is great.

But I have no problem wearing a suit and owning it. I like cleaning up too, if it’s called for.

Yeah. You guys look great at the wedding, obviously. It was Dolced out, right?

Yeah.

And for the shirts, are you doing showroom shopping, or are stylists bringing you piles of hardcore shirts? Then they’re just like, these are yours now.

No. I’ll just search eBay.

Oh, so you’re a —

All I do is — it’s like, search vintage tee shirts, Chevy Impalas.

Oh, you a buy a car on Ebay?

Chevy Suburbans.

Will you buy the actual car on eBay?

I’ll be on Barrett-Jackson or Mecum.

They’ll bring a trailer or something like that.

Bring a trailer. Hemmings.

Love it.

I respect an online shopper. Great stuff.

Yeah, I love it.

These gummies, 9 out of 10.

They’re 9.

Yeah, 9 out of 10.

Not like — an easy nine.

An easy nine, maybe a 9 and 1/2.

Yeah, I’m startled. I’m not prepared. I’m a vegan now.

Yes.

And you love sour candy.

Yeah.

Sweden.

Swedish sour candies.

I’m a Swedish vegan.

You guys are so funny. My son, he’ll be like, is that real cheese or is it vegan? I’m like, son, vegan cheese is real. It’s just really healthy. I was trying to tell him.

[LAUGHS]

It does exist. It is real. Yeah.

So funny.

Travis Barker, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Thank you guys.

This was excellent.

What a joy to have you. I appreciate you being here and sharing all these stories with us. Every episode of “Popcast” ever is at nytimes.com/popcast. We’re on YouTube at youtube.com/popcast, Instagram, TikTok. You know where to find us. We’ll be back next week. Credits and link in bio.

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